Neil: 0:05

My name is Neil Metzler, and I'm a coach, mentor and trainer for careers in tech. Welcome to our program. I'm inviting you to take a step back and imagine would you like to wake up every morning excited about what you do? What is the big idea keeping you up at night? And what if you're already closer to reaching it than you imagine, building a bridge to your next career step can be challenging. I know this because I reinvented my career multiple times in multiple countries around the world, there is nothing like achieving a courageous goal that you set for yourself. Change and disruption are only accelerating careers are no longer linear. Let us choose to embrace this challenge and move forward together. Thank you. So Gabby, welcome to your next big thing.

Gabby: 0:56

Thank you. Thank you. Yes.

Neil: 1:00

This has been a long time coming. We've been speaking about doing this for a while now. And I'm really pleased that I got a chance to sit down with you. So thanks for making the time and being with us.

Gabby: 1:10

It's my pleasure, Neil. Yeah, always my pleasure. And I'm looking forward to the conversation today, it's gonna be great.

Neil Metzler: 1:17

We're going to talk with the audience about your career and your career shift from social work into the world of finance. And I wanted to start with the social work piece. You have a master's in social work, and you also have published credits in that field. So tell us more about was that work? What you expected?

Gabby: 1:47

Yeah, that's a great question. And in many ways, it was, when I entered the school social work program, my expectation was really to have a versatile degree. But on the other hand, drilling down into each of those roles, there were things that I had not expected or things that really didn't fit with what I was looking for. In the end, I found the conversations I was having with folks further on in their career in academia. I found many of those conversations, that, that the folks that were further on, were really feeling unsatisfied in sort of a similar way that I had felt when working in community based organizations, right, they felt sort of pigeon holed and didn't feel like they were progressing at the pace that they could, and rather, they were progressing at the pace that that the larger bureaucracy would allow them to progress. And that was something that immediately I knew was was probably not going to be a good fit for me is the other aspect. We've talked a lot about the fulfilment aspect. But the other aspect we haven't talked about yet is, is the compensation aspect. And I would be not giving you the whole story if I didn't include the fact that that was a consideration, right, that advancement, both in terms of opportunity and skill set, but also in terms of compensation was something that I considered heavily as I looked at what was in front of me, and basically, the conclusion I came to knowing that my future wife would be working in social work, probably for the rest of her career was, I need to make at least $100,000 a year to have, you know, middle class life on top of whatever she makes. She makes money. Cool. Go ahead.

Neil Metzler: 3:29

And what was going on at that moment for you as you were growing in your professional and also in your personal life? What was important to you at that time?

Gabby: 3:38

Yeah, great question. We had just gotten engaged. My girlfriend and I, so now wife, right. And so I was really thinking about, what does our future life look like together? What does it looked like to give our potential future family this similar or hopefully better life than I or she had growing up? And what does that cost? And, you know, the answer was, we probably can't both continue working in social services as a field, because in reality, you know, it's just the compensations. Not there. I said, I just can't do that. So I also had some pressure as much as it was scary. It was also like, well, this is also what has to happen to

Neil Metzler: 4:29

where do those Where did those values come from for you, Gabby?

Gabby: 4:36

What a great question. So I think it came from a number of places. My parents, both first generation college graduates. Both certainly first generation master's degree graduates had worked very, very hard. And I knew how hard they had worked to give me the opportunity to go to undergraduate school debt free. I did have, you know, some debt from my master's program, but I know, I guess that value came from honoring their sacrifice, right. And so I knew in my parents mind, the target was the best possible education, right, and the best possible outcome from that. So I think the value of giving your kids everything that you can to move them forward, right not to just stagnate or to, you know, continue forward in a path that's in front of you, but to really push and say, what is it going to take out of me to really push the family forward? And and to prioritize that. And from that moment forward, I said, Okay, I have a five year plan, I will make six figures in the next five years, and I did hit that goal. But, you know, thinking about the moments along the way, right, where, you know, we had moved from Ann Arbor to Seattle, which was a great choice. I mean, I was so grateful. And among other things, we met you and fror. And that has been, you know, paid dividends to our lives in so many ways. But, um, you know, we, I think, kind of realized together through that process, you know, wow, we both have graduate degrees. And yet, it's not a guarantee that those graduate degrees turn into sort of the middle class life that we expected, right, I think more. So the realization was, oh, just having accomplished that does not automatically mean that the compensation will follow, right, that I have to actively make choices about how I steer my career, in order to make that worth it. I just wasn't having any luck, you know. And so I ended up working with a recruiter that took some effort to that recruiter stripped my resume of my graduate degree and all of my professional experience

Neil Metzler: 7:17

of your graduate degree to Yes, yeah, because it was not a fit for this new Gaby. Like in terms of this new lens and fit and it wasn't linear, perhaps

Gabby: 7:28

that one of the challenges I face professionally is the nonlinear nature of my progression, right. And so I think, in many ways, it's still tempting to do that right to remove parts of, and, you know, again, hitting on the theme of there is a person under the armor to remove parts of yourself personally, to remove parts of yourself professionally, to fit a linear idea of, of what you're going toward, right? This this, you know, recruiter did me such favors by basically, pitching me as someone who had an undergrad degree, from a great institution, University of Michigan with a good grade point average, obviously, she's smart, so you can do it. And then along the way, I had had all these side jobs that you know, I even still I work multiple jobs for fun, though. Now I coach, and that's fun and stuff. But I had always worked multiple jobs. And so I had not only that job at the University of Washington at any given time, but I also worked, teaching bilingual preschool. And I also worked at a cafe. And I also worked, you know, as a customer service rep on the phone, and I also had work right all along. So I had like this shadow resume that she could use instead. And I actually think that's one of the huge things that I did for myself, I didn't realize I was doing along the way that really helped was to have diversity of job experience. Even if it felt like it wasn't going to amount to anything. In the end, it actually is probably the thing that got me that that opportunity.

Neil Metzler: 9:02

Yeah, but you told us how working with a recruiter who was really excellent, who helped you reframe your resume and what you were leading with, led to you getting into the room for the interview, and ultimately getting the job. So how was your experience in that first year in your new industry? Once you landed in finance,

Gabby: 9:25

starting there? You know, my expectation was that I would really need to prove myself and that was absolutely true. You know, the first couple of days, I actually had multiple people come up to me and say, You seem really nice, but I have no idea why they hired you. Or we don't really understand why you're here or, you know, I guess you're here now directly, directly. Yeah. It was very much like a Wolf of Wall Street environment like later, I would, you know, acclimate and I pass all my exams and become licensed and be successful. And I would end up you know, I ended up managing the internal sales team, some of the same people who were saying these things to me. And and it was very much an environment of like, showmanship, if you will, right, like talking about armor, and then the real person and I was not used to that, right. Like, I was not used to, like, well, what, what, what's happening? Like, why are you saying these things to me? And what's going on? And I suppose floor. Yeah, exactly. It was a sales floor. And I had worked in sales before, but not in that environment. But nonetheless, you know, I managed to be successful and, and ended up like I said, managing the sales team, and move my way up and eventually deciding, sort of, as I had done in social work, like, Hey, I see this life now, and I understand what it's about. And I understand that I could certainly meet the compensation, you know, requirements that I had. But I don't know that I could meet the lifestyle requirement of being home with my family each night. And and of course, I did quite a bit of travel to New York. And you know, you have to talk to different wire houses and brokerages and have to go to their headquarters and you have to, you know, be on the road, you have to wine and dine people. So I, I decided, you know, wholesaling is probably not the end game. And instead, let's look at advising, because the main client base that we were selling to were advisors and advisors stay in the same office for a very long time, they build long term relationships with clients and families, and they do a lot of therapy like work, where they're helping families to find what they need, and helping them meet those needs. And so I thought, well, maybe this is a really great opportunity to shift toward advising, where I can use those interpersonal practice clinical skills in combination with this new content knowledge, I had it, you know, acquired. So that's what took me to my next step. You know, I was successful in the sales environment, but I didn't really want to stay. And so I moved to advising and I did that back at Merrill Lynch back home here in Metro Detroit. Because the advice I got from every single person was, you know, work as an advisor work where your home is going to be, because you want as much networking as you can, and you want to build a very long term client base, right? Like, that's the that's the target. At the same time, we had gotten married, so So it also fit in in our personal life to move home because we knew we were going to start a family and wanted family nearby. So

Neil Metzler: 12:56

yeah, how did your if you look back at that change from the sales role, going out being on the road? And then the advisor role? You talked about how it lined up better with time and spending time with family? Do you think it also aligns better with your values and what meaningful work means to you? We're not

Gabby: 13:27

Yeah. Now I would say that that water is pretty muddy. But I think at the time, I would have said yes, wholeheartedly. In a sales role, it's very difficult to walk the line between you know, your values and hopefully making a positive impact on people's lives and then feeding your own family, um, as I kind of understood better the tension between doing something that I was good at and enjoyed and was a good fit with my values and the tension you know, with feeding your family. The last I liked that frontline advisor role because then I found myself in situations where I sat with a client in front of them and thought the thing to do to improve my income is to sell them this one particular thing, the thing to do to have them with the best outcome is to not sell them anything at all. And so I didn't like having to decide that daily. Mostly because I still with a social work. Conscious conscience usually did not decide to pay myself and so I thought, well, this isn't gonna go well because I'm, you know, not going to make the right choice for my family.

Neil Metzler: 15:01

As you were noticing this, in some ways, like conflict or tension arise, did you ever have a conversation with Lauren about that,

Gabby: 15:11

all throughout the process, I would have conversations with her, you know, I would tell her about the experiences that I was having, and we would kind of laugh at them together or, you know, her, she gets fired up real fast, couldn't believe, you know, couldn't believe that that happened completely this happened. And so, you know, I did tell her that this was a tension that I was facing. And I said, I don't, you know, I'm not gonna make bad decisions for other people. I just think I need to find a different path, right? Like, I can't, I can't sit with myself and like, know that I told someone the wrong thing. At the same time, I was being recruited by fidelity. And so I said, the I'm always gonna take the call, just take the call and see what they have to say. And sometimes what they have to say is like, not any better than what I have now and what I've worked so hard to survive, but sometimes it is better. And that's what happened with fidelity.

Neil Metzler: 16:10

Awesome, that's a perfect point for us to take a quick break and pick up with this next chapter. For Gabby in Finance. Today's episode is sponsored by the national LGBT Chamber of Commerce. The NGLCC is the largest advocacy organization dedicated to expanding economic opportunities and advancements for LGBTQ people, and is the exclusive certifying body for LGBTQ owned businesses. Become a member of your local affiliate chapter, or one of 53 domestic or 24 international affiliates to leverage professional benefits and take advantage of complimentary national certification.

Gabby: 16:52

Being active on LinkedIn, I'm still active on LinkedIn, right, being active in terms of updating my profile, yes, and including accomplishments being active in terms of continually adding to my education. Like I said, I accomplished the CAIA and the CFP, both while I was at Merrill Lynch. So continually making myself more and more attractive in terms of my skills, and marketing myself in that way. I think led to the inbound ask, right? Because they, when you look at the job description, or the posting for a job that I ended up being recruited for, at Fidelity, those are the nice to haves, right. So what I'll say is, even as I wasn't, you know, particularly actively soliciting a new job at that time, meeting those nice to haves in a job description that was attractive on my LinkedIn profile, I think led directly to that inbound ask.

Neil Metzler: 17:50

You had been using, you call that some certifications, yeah, that you had been using to build to continue to build your credibility, and really expand your footprint of hey, like, yeah, I am legit in this industry. So I think that's worth a mention of how you did that. You are already in the industry. And then, you know, as expected, but also, as you took initiative to make sure that you were getting several certifications to support your current and future roles.

Gabby: 18:20

Exactly. And I don't know if that, you know, I think in parts probably was driven by having a little bit of a chip on my shoulder having heard directly from so many people that I shouldn't be there. But in the end that benefited me, right? Like I kind of turned those comments around into like, well, I'll show you that I should be here. So there's a little bit of that too. Little bit of those, you know, sort of fighter feelings in me. And that's good, right? It helps me to tackle a challenge. But you're right. I think, ultimately, building credibility. beyond the scope of your current job, is a theme. I think the idea of building credibility, while you're in a current role outside of your role outside of your daily work is is really important to be able to continue moving forward. I'm very happy, right that I made that change. I've been working at Fidelity now since 2018. So coming up on four years, in many ways. It's exactly what I set out to do when I came in to this industry and made it and made a change over to advising right, like, this is what I imagined I'm making good income, I have good work life balance. I'm home with my family every night, I'm able to do you know a variety of services for clients. I don't feel like I have a daily decision between the clients best interest in my my own family in many ways, like this was the dream, right? And yet, the title of your podcast is your next big thing. So um, so just like you asked at the beginning of the story, right, like was I afraid when I had this realization that some things were gonna have to change My answer was no. In fact, a big motivator for me is challenge and, and newness and opportunity for I was listening to Neil deGrasse Tyson. And he was describing that, that idea that as your vision expands, so too does the perimeter of your unknown, right. So like, as your understanding expands, then you have so much more to expand into. And so that's definitely always been captivating to me that like, the more I can learn and understand, the more I can integrate across different ideas, the more cool integration can happen. So for me, this next step really, is hopefully going to integrate more of my professional skill with what I've found to be very satisfying in my work at Fidelity, which is yes, income, but also like professional pride and work life balance and ability to really succeed every day, right in a in a, in a value aligned way. And so I'm really looking forward to taking the next step.

Neil Metzler: 21:18

As you talk about building a bridge to your next big thing. If there's friction, if you suffer setbacks along the way, what keeps you going Gabby?

Gabby: 21:34

Yeah. For me, there's the really tangible answers of like, I like to work out and like I keep my daily mental state stable by doing these coping skills that I, you know, have practice throughout the course of my life. Running, writing, reading, laughing, playing with my kids, we have dogs, petting the dogs, right, like, in a very day to days, in a very day to day sense, just keeping my mental state stable. You know, one of the things that I did here, when I worked at Merrill, that was very useful advice was, you know, this job is a roller coaster. But you have to be able to stay flat and even. So on a great day, when you've gotten a great sale, you should celebrate for a little bit, but then you should go right back to work, because that's supposed to happen, right? It's, it's, it has to happen, otherwise, you won't stay here. On days, when you lose clients, or when the markets really down, or it's just not going your way, you've asked the same client three times to do something that they should do, and they don't do it. You know, just the same like, yes, it's frustrating issue acknowledges frustrating, but then you got to move on next play, you know, what I mean, it's one of those, like, each day is should be close to equally stable, right should be close to equally functional, close to equally, you know, no big highs, no big lows. So that in one way, is sort of the the ongoing work of of staying on the grind, right? But then, you know, the conceptual sense, like what feeds you conceptually about this idea, in some ways, is the idea that you've forgotten other goals in pursuit of this goal, right? Like, if you're thinking to yourself, I have to take a step back in my income, or I have to pursue some more education or, you know, I'm not maxing out one side or piece of the goal, because I've intentionally, you know, forgotten the opportunity to do that. I'm intentionally chosen, right? Like, I'm a big, I'm a big advocate of making decisions. I'm big, so weird to say it that way. But I think it's really important to make a decision as often as you can, and the decision you've made is to pursue this particular goal. And that goal, then, is perhaps in place of other goals. And it's okay, because you've already made that decision, right, trusting yourself and the decision that you made. Conceptually, being the most important sort of driver,

Neil: 24:15

you've made a really powerful point that maybe on this bridge to our next big thing, it's not only the the the stellar novel project, or the well placed mentor, or the powerful certification event, those are all important, and those all needs to be there. But you've also talked about this, this work within and the interfacing work that you've done to develop that. That steadiness. Right. And I think that's a really important point. I'm glad that you that you shared that.

Gabby: 24:51

Thanks. Yeah. And those other factors can help feed it too. So one of the tools that I sometimes use is to have multiple as you You would say irons in the fire or rods in the stream, or however you want to say that right? Like, multiple opportunities to feel successful every day. And so if you're setting yourself up in a way where you're alternating those strategies where you say, Okay, today, I'm going to work on mentorship. Tomorrow, I'm gonna work on my project. The next day, I'm gonna work on my certification, or today, I'm gonna first work on mentorship, and then my certification, right, so you're giving yourself, you know, you're taking concrete steps forward, and you're taking little, little little steps forward, then one day, they just kind of turn into a big rushing river, right, one day, they just kind of coalesce in there, and there you are doing the next thing that you want to do.

Neil Metzler: 25:36

This is so crucial, because if we only have one thing in our lives that we ever allow ourselves to feel great about is that one thing isn't going great for a day, a week, a month, that's left me kind of upstream a few times, and I look now at what my portfolio is. And I have, I spend my time and my effort, also, running my own business, as well as volunteering and making music and DJing. And when one of those three things is either I'm not nurturing it, it reminds me like, Yeah, this is important to you, like, recommit to that redefine your why for that. And also, it gives me three times as many opportunities for things to feel my sense of self esteem, recognition, and also my my identity, I feel I have a much fuller identity expression that I've been able to define for myself. So I wonder if you have any magic advice, because obviously time is a is a challenge, right? I found that when I was doing full time, corporate work. In big tech, I didn't know I didn't necessarily create the time to develop my my impact in terms of volunteering or my expression and those other aspects of well being. Have you found strategies, like you mentioned, you're also coach, and and you've been able to design your life in a way that promotes those areas of well being outside of just career? Yeah. Do you have any advice about that?

Gabby: 27:21

Yeah, I do. Oh, no. Yeah, I do. You know, I think there are simple answers to that question, then there are hard answers to that question. And for me, one of the hard answers to that question is accepting that you're not going to be necessarily you could still, but the goal isn't to necessarily max out your success in any one area. I think that's a hard thing for people to accept, right? Like, if I wanted to be the absolute best financial consultant at Fidelity, I could do it. But I choose not to, because I don't spend 12 hours a day on my job. And I think giving up some marginal level of success in exchange for diversity of success, right? Like, here we go nerdy hat but like, you could absolutely transfer that same idea to portfolio management, right? Like you would, in general, someone might not choose to give up diversity of success across multiple types of market environments, in order to achieve maximum success in holding whatever, Amazon stock Apple stock Google stock, right? It's the same idea, you wouldn't over emphasize your primary source of income and day to day work at the sacrifice of under emphasizing things that may become even more valuable, right, and that's going back to that idea of when I first made the transition from social work to finance having to strip my primary work completely, only brought into sharper focus that is so important to have other lines of of sustenance, right, other ways that you are sustained, not just, you know, monetarily, but also in terms of your energy, right in terms of your willingness to work in terms of your motivation and your you know, positive vibes, right? Like if you, if you let yourself get run down by over emphasizing that one thing then you've really stunted yourself.

Neil Metzler: 29:34

So I think as we move to towards our conclusion here, Gabby, you've spoken about balance in this idea of bringing balance into the portfolio, not only in the technical financial sense would your suit for Savea but also in the personal the family and the well being sense which I'm I'm really happy you shared about that. What have you through these challenges that you've overcome with changing work environments? And even preparing role? What have you learned about your

Gabby: 30:14

so I own reinforce to myself many times over that I will do pretty much whatever I choose or need or want to do in a given moment, right that I've reinforced many times over that. Even though it may never have been done before, or even though it is not easily done, or even though nobody really understands what I'm doing. That's okay. Right. Like, I've decided, right, going back to that idea of like, I've decided, and, and that's usually kind of the end of it, right? Like, in the end. My resilience is important. And it's been proven. And it's also an ongoing thing that needs to be fed. As we've talked about, you know, just if you aren't achieving every sale, so remember, I tend to have a memory for like sayings and stuff. When we first moved to Chicago, we had like no money and no jobs. And so we lived in this Co Op, housing, which is a story in itself. But on the window of the dining room was a poster, why someone chose to put it over the window, I have no idea. But sometimes the light shone through and it was nice. It was a poster that had a picture of a mountain on it, and it said, climb every other mountain. And I ponder that still, because I think the message is going for is you don't have to climb every single mountain, you don't have to be successful at every single thing. In fact, it's probably impossible. So you should just let that go. And instead choose the mountain that needs to be climbed right, the choose to climb every other mountain choose to climb the mountain that is important to you. And so for me, the resilience is a two way street, right? Like I've proven to myself over and over that I can be as resilient as I need to be. But it's important to that I don't ask myself to be resilient in every moment, right? I'm not saying like I have to win. It's not like that's all I do is win win win, no matter what. Right? Like that's not that's not the plan. I have to only I have to be respectful as well of the resilience that I have and not asking for it at every moment. If that makes sense.

Neil Metzler: 32:41

Gaby I think that's the perfect place for us to end on and love and a wonderful guest. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with us today.

Gabby: 32:49

Thank you, Neil. It's always good. This is its own kind of resilience practice too, right? Just reflecting..