Neil Metzler: 0:02

You're listening to your next big thing. My name is Neil Metzler, and I'm a Career Coach and startup mentor in tech. In this series of podcasts, you will hear inspiring stories of career inventions, stories of folks who made a change, to find fulfillment from work, and satisfaction from life, even in this time of disruption. I hope you can take some perspective, insight and learn how to do what you love and love what you do. So, Francisco Raffo, welcome to your next big thing.

Franziska Raffael: 0:34

Thank you.

Neil Metzler: 0:35

Yeah, it's great to have you, it's nice to be sitting down with you. We've had the chance to work together in the past, many, many moons ago in our corporate professional lives. And today, I've got the chance to ask you about your new career direction in art. So I naturally wanted to start with sharing a little bit with our audience about what got you into art? And maybe when did you first realize that art was meaningful to you?

Franziska Raffael: 1:01

Um, well, it's a question I get asked quite frequently. And that I also asked myself, actually, so I'd say it was when I was a child, you know, but then I was interested in a lot of things when I was a child. You know, I also, I played hockey when I was a child, and I don't anymore, so yes, so it was definitely I don't know, kindergarten, primary school, whenever there were like creative topics, I would be part of it. But consciously, I'd say it was more when I was a teenager. So for example, I spent a year in the States. And when I was 1516 years old, and I had a few topics that I like a few courses, I had to take a few classes, like, I don't know, math and history or whatever. But then I also had a few classes, I could choose by myself. And when I look back, it was all creative classes. So it was an art class, it was a black and white photography class. And it was drama class. Besides doing art myself, I also started consuming art, more and more. So it was, I don't know whether it was theater, opera museums, dance shows, whatever. So that I think that all started like pretty much when I was a teenager. Yeah. So that would be the answer to when it when it all started.

Neil Metzler: 2:27

So this was a passion for you. This was something inspirational for you, when you're young, through adolescence, and then growing into the adult workforce, per se, right. So you have a degree, a master's degree in international marketing, you have risen into people management responsibilities in several companies. And I was interested to ask you more. Art became something of from a hobby to a side hustle for you. And I know that you sold your first works in 2016 2017. Were there were there signals at that time that you began to think that maybe this hobby might become more of a serious side hustle for evenings, weekends? What was that like for you?

Franziska Raffael: 3:14

Um, I think back in like, back, I got it like five years ago already. And back in 2016 2017, I didn't think I would make it a career. So but why did it start? So I did art when I was a child and a teenager. And so I didn't mostly photography and stuff, though, by the way, which other people are just better at than I am. And then yeah, it didn't do it for a long time. Like, during my apprenticeship during my studies. I never really did any art. And then it was like the classic. I don't know, classic situation. My roommate moved out there was room available all of a sudden, and I got all the old art supplies out and started doing art again. So that was like 2016 2017. But then it was really more like, oh, I finally have time for that hobby. Again, you know, and not like, Okay, I finally have time for the hobby again, in order to make it my profession. Yeah. So I started I don't know, I started by copying stuff. I tried some stuff. The canvases grew bigger. If I look at it now, I think oh, God, it's like, not very good, but, but it was fun, nevertheless. And then a friend of a friend was looking for an art piece in his living room. And so I don't know I sold him something for like 70 Euro, or now I think, Okay, if you want to make it a profession, you know, it's not the kind of prices you can take.

Neil Metzler: 4:39

Someone paid someone paid for your work. Someone paid for your creative work.

Franziska Raffael: 4:43

Yes, exactly. So it was like, Oh, that's so nice. I hope he likes it. That's still the same. But yeah, but it was a no way that I wanted to make it a profession that came at a later stage.

Neil Metzler: 4:57

And did you look at it The time and the money that you were spending, like on supplies and things like that, and start to think like, what if this could be self sufficient? What if I could break even on this? Or what if I could do even better than breakeven? Or was there a financial aspect in your mind at this at this point at all?

Franziska Raffael: 5:19

I really just looked at how much did the canvas cost and the colors and Okay, let's have like, I don't know, a few euros on top. So it was really more Yeah, no, no, I didn't really look at proper prices. And at the same time, I knew if I asked him to pay 500 600 1000 euro for then his enter would most likely be No.

Neil Metzler: 5:41

Yeah. Nice, nice. So help our listeners kind of understand the context at this time you in this at this time period, you're moving jobs kind of two to three years, you're getting more seniority, you're getting a better paying compensation. And you're very successful in international marketing roles, including an E commerce and platform sales. So I'm curious a little bit about the skills that you have from that work, and how applicable, they are now in your next big thing. Do any of those skills crossover? How did you have a chance to use some things? Are they because one of our fears, when we make big changes is like, oh, gosh, I've invested so much in this skill set? Was it totally lost? Or are there some parallels?

Franziska Raffael: 6:30

No, not at all. Like it was not at all last? I'd say I don't know if it's like a real skill. But one thing I learned. So I worked in startups for the last roughly five years one was a bit bigger. The next one was 10 people when I came in, and the project or the project, the product wasn't even ready. So what I definitely learned is that you just just do it, like, maybe Nike was onto something there. And just do it like, that's one thing. If you don't try it, you will never know also, even if you get no for an answer is never, it's never the end of the world, you know, because then you can always ask, okay, why? Why not? Or like, I don't know, in that case, for example, what would your budget be? If it's not XYZ blah, blah, blah? And then also that it's just not bad to get a no, because it's fine. Like some people just don't want what you have, but others do. So just this mindset, I think, that it's not the end of the world when, when somebody doesn't want what you offer. And the other thing is about, like skill wise, talking to people, I think so I was in a lot of customer facing roles. I talked a lot of to like, for example, us, you know, we were like partners, basically. So just talking to, to strangers, if you will, about any topic, to try to find anything that you can connect on in order to keep the conversation flowing in order to get to know what the other person wants, what you can offer them what they don't want. And I kind of like go on here, but Yeah, or like I had a lot of different, like difficult clients at my last job. And still, I needed to pick up the phone, I needed to get in touch with them, because they had bought our product. And they, you know, so also overcoming this like, like moving out of your comfort zone. I think you could like, yeah, point it put it. So let's

Neil Metzler: 8:33

stick with that business mindset because I've been impressed with how you have engineered your jump, how you've created and maximized your opportunity. So I wondered if you could speak to our guests as sort of speak to our listeners a little bit about how you decided to make your promo video to invest to put some put some funding into into this for your launch? And also maybe if you worked with some coaching, how you decided to scope that and why you why you decided to invest in these two things, the coaching and the video.

Franziska Raffael: 9:08

Okay, so let's get started with the coaching because that also timewise it was before the video. I think that actually coming back to when I decided on making art a career that was like, starting point. So last year, I moved out of my last office job, so I quit my job. And I didn't really have a specific target in mind, like career wise or I didn't say okay, I want to go on a three month retreat to India and blah blah, whatever. Yeah, I just wanted to get out of the job because I knew this is not what I want to do forever and I wanted to have time and TMI had to figure out what I want to do. I knew I would do art, but I didn't think I would do as much of it and then I spent like full working days just painting and all of a sudden I was Okay interesting. And then because I had All the time I progressed at such a quick rate all of a sudden, that from, it's like, you know, and like, I just read Hemingway again, The Sun Also Rises. And at some point this one guy's asked how he got bankrupt. And so he says, well, gradually and then suddenly. And so that's also what happened last summer. So I had done art and art and art. And then suddenly, it felt like what I was producing then was my own art and not just copying, not just reproducing. And then the coaching comes in, because then I was approached on Instagram by some guy who offered this coaching for artists, basically saying, Okay, we have this program, where we show you how to market your art, and how not just to make beautiful art, but how to make money with it. And they were still like really young, that they will also start up. So I took a chance, and I did this program, it cost me some money as well. But I was like, Okay, if I really want to do art more seriously, this might be a really good way because I will pay for it. So I kind of kick myself in the butt.

Neil Metzler: 11:16

Is this this? What did you find that the coaching experience gave you? Was it around accountability? Was it sort of like the gym membership that like, oh, gosh, I'm paying it? And if I don't use it, like, what am I doing?

Franziska Raffael: 11:28

I'm what gave me gave me more ideas on how you can make money with art actually, like I'm convinced you can do it. It just showed and more, like opened my horizon to possibilities on, you know, like, I sell originals, yes. But then you can, like do that in so many ways. It's not just they don't just have to hang in a gallery in order to sell them. But I don't know, you can list them online, you can ask doctor's offices, if they you know, need your art, like once you understand where your art could fit in, then you can find your target group. And like, I don't know, ended sales, you know, make a lead list, call people blah, blah, blah. But so for me, it was really like a starting point. Like, it was a bit like the gym membership. So I invest money. So I want to get something out of it. I don't notice it enters a question. Did I get totally sidetracked?

Neil Metzler: 12:24

I was leading you towards the accountability side, which some folks find really as like one of the primary things from coaching, but you immediately mentioned the the insights and like actionable kind of business method. Is that Is that right?

Franziska Raffael: 12:39

Yes. Okay. Yeah, it is. It's, like, still determined whether it's gonna work out that well, because, yeah, and what was also really important for me in that coaching was that I got to connect with other artists. So we were like, in that group, like a group of 10 people, I'd say. And just to see that the problems you have on not only your problems, you know, they all have them. Or also just to, to get feedback. And yeah, actionable help on. I don't know, it's like, I want to ship an artwork. How do you have any experience like how I best ship that artwork? Yes, yes, you get these kinds of gardens and this kind of bubble wrap? And so really, like practical information as well, that yeah, showed you you don't have to do it all by yourself. Oh, and then yeah, and then the video? Yeah. So the idea was to have a video, which is a portrait of myself in video format, you know. And then I pitched that idea to a friend who's a producer, like video producer. And he loved the idea. He was actually me and he was like, more into it than I was.

Neil Metzler: 13:48

People should check out the video, we'll post it in the show comments and links, because I found the video really interesting. And you do some you have fun, you show your personality in the video. And you you put yourself out there in a way that I think can be difficult to do right after we've made a jump or you know, when we're leading with our creative side, which is, you know, close to the heart. I wanted to ask about one of the first commercial projects that you did, I think it was in a in a it was in a professional office, right, where you did a wall for them. What What exactly was the the challenge that you had, and how did you actually find this project?

Franziska Raffael: 14:26

So first of all, it's also all about network. So, guys, if you listen to this, use your network. And so the project was in a chiropractor's practice and completely newly built huge chiropractor's office. And I had the opportunity to to paint two walls like two murals basically in the training room. And also I have a few artworks hanging there that I will replace like once or twice a year. So they stay my artworks. They are For Sale, but they also add to the space. And so the idea was that this place is new, they want to be like bit fresher than their colleagues. So the briefing was there like setting some like hill side and Germany to pick up that topic of the hills as well as their corporate colors, which are green. So but then give it my touch, you know, so. So that's what I didn't mean. And I made a concept. We tweaked it a little bit, and then I was doing it. Yeah. But how did I get that job. So the chiropractors wife was in my, we were in the same primary school. We go way back. And we live in different cities by now. But we are in touch, like regularly. And so when he built that practice, she was thinking about me. So that was really cool. So they approached me. Nevertheless, it was like a fully paid job. I also want to say that it wasn't like that I did it for free for them, they probably get some benefits out of it. But yeah, so that's how it came about. So basically, last year, like mid last year, I left my office job went into this, I don't know what kind of timeout it's gonna be. Then in the fall, I did the coaching. The like how to market myself as an artist coaching, which I saw as like an a kickoff for myself to get at the whole topic more seriously. And I still thought that the beginning of this year, I might just go back into an office job. But when the new year came, I was like, You know what I actually want to do art for a living. And right now I have the funds, like I have savings, which is really important. I have the motivation, I have the time and space. Also during COVID. You know, like, there was nowhere to go, which was pretty good in that respect. So the beginning of the year, I said, Okay, I'm gonna do this full time, I got like a new, I don't know, a new text number. I'm insured with this. Like, there's in Germany, this this, the car, his car, the conseillers et Cie Castle, which is like, I'm not going to elaborate on it. But it's like pretty good system. So I'm also insured as though as if I were an employee somewhere. All this kind of stuff, I got all this settled. And I'm focusing full time on it. And the practice was in the we had started talking about last December. And then it took place a few months after that. And this is the kind of project I actually also want to pursue in the future, because it is a huge canvas I can work on, which is the fun part. But also, I can get really creative in a way that I have to understand what does the company stand for? Like, what how do they want to portray themselves visually, what other like corporate colors, for example, that I can use, and then to build this whole concept, which is another sort of creativity apart from the actual painting. And then it's like, it has a good scope, you know, you know, in the end, you'll be there one or two days. So before you have to plan everything meticulously, which I'm also quite good at also from back in the day. And then you can do it, you get well paid and yep,

Neil Metzler: 18:29

there's two places I want to go next. So one is just to hear a little bit about What's plan B, because in the movies, when the budding artist leaves her hometown, and gets on that bus to San Francisco, New York City, Paris, Berlin, but which we're in right now Berlin, by the way, she is forced to sort of go all in, but in reality, how did you come to this decision? And how do you view your kind of plan B?

Franziska Raffael: 19:00

So I don't know a while ago, I read this, this quote somewhere. Base something, something along the lines, like you shouldn't have a plan B. Or if you have a plan B, you're not really into plan A and I just thought, Ah, no, I don't think so. This might be true for some people like that you can only focus on something or more to get motivated for something if you really see no other option. It doesn't work for me if I don't have a plan B I get super nervous. And I cannot focus on Plan A. So Plan A is be a full time artist and make my living with it. Period. Plan B is well be a full time artist, but then have some side hustle to make some money to live. So basically, I don't plan like five years ahead now I plan like heavier ahead. I know how far my money that I still have will take me And if that comes to like, if that those funds get lower, I will just look for a part time job or something. And if then it really doesn't work out, then we'll see from there.

Neil Metzler: 20:10

Thank you, Francisco. Yeah. So I want you to take us back actually, to a moment in time, a moment in time that is very powerful for folks who may be taking their side hustle to full time gig. And that moment is the time when you submitted your resignation to your to your company to your your full time job. Can you can you walk me through maybe just what that day was like, when you actually sent in the letter and tell folks a little bit how it works here in Germany, and maybe what the weeks were like before you did that.

Franziska Raffael: 20:43

So I did it two times. And my last two jobs. And so the first one of those two is also where we met when I was working at a movie, which is like a big ecommerce company here in Germany. So what happened then was, my job was, okay, like, it was interesting. And I had, like, I got like new topics and stuff quite frequently, which kept it interesting. But then I woke up to many to many mornings thinking, Oh, do I really have to do this again today, and then you're at work, you have a nice team, you know, everything's good. But

Neil Metzler: 21:24

at this point, when you were going from a morally to this next company, it was an exciting startup with only 10 people, you were one of the first 1020 employees. And they were offering software solution for small hotels. So tell me, Francisco, this was harkening back to some of your original passion, or interest and background with hotels and hospitality. And you were learning some new technical skills being a Head of Customer Success management. Yes. So how, how did you dare to walk away from that job in order to go full time with art.

Franziska Raffael: 22:03

So as I mentioned before, when I quit that job, it wasn't the plan to do art full time. But it was more like, there, my exit was planned much longer in advance, because it was a smaller company, my role was much more vital to the company. So I knew once I'd leave, that is, there will be a gap like, not like, Oh, God, I'm so wonderful, you know, they're all gonna be so sad that I'm not. Not they were. But no, but more like the role needed to be filled, in order for the company to work properly. And I didn't leave out of spite, or like, because we hated each other, whatever, you know, it just wasn't the right thing for me anymore. We had started talking about me leaving, I think, more than half a year before I actually left. And I was actively involved in finding my successor. I trained her for a few weeks while I was still there. So that was my plan. So it was more gradual process. I still had to hand in the actual notice. But that was more fine. Still a little bit strange. But yeah.

Neil Metzler: 23:09

So I want to challenge you here, because you've shown me, you've told me how you in a very professional way, you know, transitioned out. And I would love for our audience to hear a little bit more, if they are considering a jump. What signals were you observing about your art? And how did you turn these thoughts into action that made you decide that you that what you were going to do was quit your corporate job and go full time with art? Like I know, you mentioned that what used to be normal like two three hour sessions, some things could turn into full days of painting, did you observe some changes in your side hustle or other signals that other people might also think about? Okay, so

Franziska Raffael: 23:54

one thing I did already while I was still working full time, was having my first exhibition, like first own exhibition, which also came through a colleague, actually with a freelance colleague in tech. And he knew this guy had this like super fancy, nice restaurant with like an adjacent space, who kept having different artists in them. And he's like, hey, I can, he was always mocking me, because I be art up in the office actually. was like the very start of the office. So there was not a lot in it. And I was like, I have so many paintings. Can I hang some? Yeah, of course.

Neil Metzler: 24:31

In your own office in the office, yeah.

Franziska Raffael: 24:35

Yes. And so then this freelance colleague was always like, Oh, another painting another pending? I'm like, Yes. And then one day, he's like, Hey, I have a question about your art. And I'm like, What do you want? And he's like, Well, actually, you know, I know this guy, blah, blah, blah, who keeps having different artists and so on. Should I put you in touch? And I'm like, Oh, okay. Yes, please do so. And then from that came this first excellent So that already showed me that and I sold a few paintings there as well, which was super nice. There was like, I don't know, if you want to call it the sign, but you know, but it was like, okay, so apparently people that don't know, you know, because the buyers were none of my like relatives, friends, acquaintances, whatever, but random strangers who like the art I was doing. So I think that like helped me make the decision to leave corporate and do something else. Yet, I know, it's probably for like the next big thing not not so good to say. But like, I didn't plan on doing art full time when I left. That came, but that came a bit later, you know, so it was out of the job, I had left my office job, because I just realized this is just not what I want to do for the next one to five years. You know, it was good at great colleagues at a lot of responsibility at a great team. Clients were driving crazy Tech was driving me crazy, you know, but it's, that's just how it goes. And like every, I think every tech, startup tech company, whatever, you know. But the points that kept frustrating me, like ended up being points that I did not want to be frustrated by. Now, I still have a lot of topics that frustrate me. But they are just part of the thing I love to do right now. And so I think that was a big for me that or if you are in a situation that you think about quitting your job. I don't know. Just think about whether the all the trouble you have you would rather have for another topic that you're more interested in.

Neil Metzler: 26:43

You were saying that there is a platform for artists called singular, that is an important marketplace for artists to post and people can discover their work and people can also purchase their work. Is that right?

Franziska Raffael: 26:57

Yeah, actually sing your lArt. So it comes comes from friends. It's it's an online gallery. So the main purpose is actually to sell art. But yes, you can discover artists discover art. They are also like three or four years old only. And but the biggest online gallery in Europe.

Neil Metzler: 27:17

So when you were looking ahead, you Was it scary to list your first pieces on there.

Franziska Raffael: 27:24

And no, that was super exciting, actually, because they had also contacted me through Instagram. So it's a good platform to connect. And they had contacted me and invited me to join the platform, which was it was really lucky because afterwards, you needed to apply. And then they had so many artists that they didn't really take some money. So I listed my first artworks and it wasn't scary. But it was cool, because all of a sudden I was there. And then a month later, the first sale happened and I was super happy. And then the next one came I was super happy. You have to pay a shitload of commission just on the side. But yeah, but still super cool. And then my plan is actually if I keep selling through singular, like one or two pieces a month, that would be super, super good. But unfortunately, didn't work that way. But the beginning of this year, when I was really like taking the leap, you know, like really like making this a business. I was like, okay, come on. If I sell one work through singular this month, you know, this is gonna be the sign that I should do it. And then I sold three. And I was like, this is a really big sign. Yeah, and then it didn't sell anything. But hey, so even though I think back and I'm like Francisca, you told yourself, if you sell something, through them, it will be assigned for you to go on. So I kind of still live off that sentiment right now.

Neil Metzler: 28:53

I hear sometimes from friends and close friends and people that I care about that they're not happy in what they're doing. But they're going to give it one more year. Or they'd like to make a change, but for whatever reason, they think that maybe it's family or maybe it's other commitments, they're like, yeah, maybe next year, maybe in two years. How how did you overcome that hump of the one more year syndrome?

Franziska Raffael: 29:27

Um, I think you just have to be like, really, like honest with yourself, which sounds easy in the beginning, but I think we as like humans are very good at rationalizing things that we shouldn't rationalize, you know, so yeah, so it's like, just like I said, you know, like on paper, my job was great, you know, and I had more opportunities like to go further to earn more money to blah, blah, blah, everything. But, but still, there was so many days where I thought oh, I don't really, I don't really want to do this right now. And if you think this one day or two days or five days, fine, you know, like, but if you keep thinking for too long, then you should really be honest to yourself and say, Okay, it's, this is probably not what I should do. And then the next step is to thing What do you want to do? What I thought about when I decided to quit? It was like, Okay, what is really the worst thing that can happen? And once you ask yourself that question, in my experience, you'll find very often that the worst thing that can happen is not that bad at all. So I knew I have some savings. For me, it's very important, you know, to have some like security, financially as well. So I had some savings I knew. Also, based on my previous career, I will very likely fall on my feet again, in case I don't know it doesn't work out with a timeout with art with anything. And then it is like, much less hard to take the leap. The The alternative was that I stayed in that job that is, okay, that's fine on paper, but that doesn't really fulfill me. You might think, okay, that's like, easy to say, like, you probably don't know anything about my like, private background, but so like, I don't have any children, I don't have a family, like I have a family but not my own. So I'm quite independent in that respect. So the decisions I take, I'm the one who's affected and not a bunch of people around me. That might be different for like, a lot of your listeners as well. Still, like asking yourself the question, what's the worst that can happen? You can still do that. Whether you have a family or not, whether you have children or not? The answer is mostly not that bad.

Neil Metzler: 31:47

Have the people around you commented, or notice any change in you, since you made your shift?

Franziska Raffael: 31:54

Well, interesting. I didn't ask. But so I'd like to say I'm happier though, or like, more glowing, or whatever. But I think I'm generally a pretty like happy, positive person. In myself, I think I find that I'm just more like, I have more fears and more doubts, often than when you have like a regular job and that paycheck that comes in every month. But I'm just I'm like more interested in what I do. I'm, I'm more relaxed in many ways. I love that I can plan my day, as I want to plan my day. A big change, I noticed myself is actually that I never, and never used to work on the weekends, and I never worked on holidays, that was a total no go for me. And by now I don't care when I work. And if it's the weekend, or if it's during the week, if it's the morning, the evening. And for me, that was a big signal for myself that what I do now is much more what I should do, then what it did before.

Neil Metzler: 33:03

If you know me, you know I'm concerned about gender gap in tech. Women in big data are a nonprofit building the data science and engineering workforce of our future, because there cannot be equity in society without equity in data collection, curation and decisions, learn about the new data revolution, and how you can be a part of the solution at women in big data.org. We are back with Francisco Raphael talking about transitioning from corporate life to full time visual art, and very proud to have you as my guest. Thank you for being here again. Yeah, thanks again. So we have talked through some of the high points some of the How to that you've done. And I wanted to put you on the spot here a little bit because I know there must be bad days too. And there have got to be some naturally some downsides to the decisions that we make. So what can you what can you share with our listeners in terms of what those look like and how you kind of manage.

Franziska Raffael: 34:11

So that will be different also for like, each one depending on like, where you go in your career, like so I moved from like, being employed to being self employed. So I talked about like flexibility how great that is, you know, how I'm my own boss, how I can work on the topics that I want to work on versus working on something that somebody else wants me to work on. On the other hand, I definitely have bad days. One thing for example, is if I don't make any sales, like and I don't mean on a daily basis, if I made sales on a daily basis, that'd be great. But I have months where I earn enough to live off it for two months and then I have months where I don't earn anything. So that is frustrating and I don't know a little bit scary. Scary. Yes. Scary. Scaring? Scary? Yeah. Do you think about it? Also, I have a whole long list of to do's and if I don't do them, nobody will do them for me. So, it Yeah. And so I have nobody but myself to, you know, tell me when to do what? And so you really need to motivate yourself. And what's also nice, yeah, if I don't sell anything, it's not just the financial part of it. But it's, it's also like, okay, is my work bad? So like you, you tend to fall into like, self doubt, you know, like, why doesn't want anyone I don't know, my paintings. I've, I've like, favorite pieces that I love. And that I think would look great on anyone's wall. And nobody wants them, you know, and I go, what's wrong with it? Yeah. So and then I see other artists who sell much more do like cool projects. And I think why is this not happening to me, you know, not happening to me, but why do they have all these gigs? And I don't? Yeah, and also, there's like, I'm scared shitless sometimes, you know, that I just won't make it, you know? And that the not earning part will just keep keep on? Yeah. And then I tried to get myself out, you know, by thinking, you know, that there are other options to do. But still, it's like, oh, God, was this all the worst decision of my life? These days definitely happen. I know. That's a bit the downside?

Neil Metzler: 36:39

Yeah. And I'm inspired to because So you mentioned to me earlier, off air that you know, you are a one woman household. So you are the sole earner. And you this has advantages, because it does keep certain things simple. But you take on the financial responsibility, the creative responsibility for your life and everything you do. So what what keeps you motivated? How do you stay the course even if it's a bad week, or sometimes as you said, it's a month where nothing just it seems like nothing is popping, and coming together.

Franziska Raffael: 37:16

Yeah, would usually helps me in those situations. And I know that behavior actually from before as well from like my previous jobs, because sometimes had the impression that nothing is moving forward. And then I tended to lose myself in a lot of whatever tasks. And what always helped me out to do like, basically just anything, where I knew I can get it done soon. And then I had the sense of achievement, okay, I just get something done. And then all of a sudden, my entire, like motivational level, rose again. So that's like a quite simple trick. So I tend to win, like here, right now, in my art business, when things don't move forward, attend to, I don't know, move around the flat in the studio and just do nothing at all, really. And then I have to force myself to sit down. And for example, I don't know list three more paintings online. When I did this, I know Okay, now you already achieved something today. And then I don't know, it looks half as bad as before. But that usually helps.

Neil Metzler: 38:24

And for those of us who love productivity hacks, or these kind of like, structure, organization management, do you have one thing that you that you find really centers you and helps you add some structure into the unpredictability, the ambiguity, the chaos,

Franziska Raffael: 38:41

make to do lists. I love making to do lists and then checking off stuff. So always make sure to always include something that's easily checked off. Because again, sense of achievement when you check it off.

Neil Metzler: 38:55

You mentioned that you are taking thing but you are thinking about things like kind of six months at a time. Do you do you go so formal as to make written goals? Like I want to have X number of this or y number of that? Or is this something that you're aware of from the corporate space, but it doesn't quite fit the way you want to run your business in your life.

Franziska Raffael: 39:19

I actually made a list like that at the beginning of this year. When I look at it now it's very sad, because it didn't quite work out. So right now I kind of stay away from it. But I I think I should do it though sometimes just to keep myself a little bit in check. I mean, new products like this podcast, for example, came up out of the blue a little bit which is super cool. So wouldn't have included it on my list, but I think it can help but it can drag you down depending on like how your mind works when you don't achieve the things on the list. So be a bit careful about that.

Neil Metzler: 39:55

We talked a little bit about some of the challenges and some of the methods used to overcome I'm them. And I really appreciate what you've shared. You know about your personal story here today. So I just wanted to close by giving you a chance to share with our listeners, because you're someone who's actually done it and actually made the jump. So for those of us who maybe haven't done that yet, what have you learned about yourself, since you've done it, since you followed through,

Franziska Raffael: 40:23

I, one thing I learned and that I'm still learning is that I compare myself too much to others. And I want to do less of that. I think comparing yourself to others is good, you know, to also to motivate you. But for me, it's very important that I learned that my goals are different than your goals, you know, my happiness is different than your happiness. So I have to be careful with what I compare myself with others. Because backgrounds motivations might be very different. So I don't want to get hung up on somebody else's goals. What I also learned about myself is that I, I personally, definitely need a safety net to fall back into like going back to plan A, plan B, and so on. I personally need that plan B, whether it be money, Family Insurance, whatever, because it just gives me a sense of security or safety. And then I can move forward with what I'm actually doing. And lastly, and I think that's like, for the first time. I know that, like I'm truly passionate about what I do, because I do not run out of ideas. And I do not run out of interest for the topic that I'm working on for the art that I'm doing. And I never had that before. I know you may say, Oh, you you've just been doing this for a few years, but believe me it was different before. And so now I know what it is to work on something that you're truly passionate about.

Neil Metzler: 41:57

On that note, I am feeling inspired Francisca with your story. I hope our listeners are too. And it's been my pleasure to have you on as a guest. And thank you for welcoming me here for tea in Berlin.

Franziska Raffael: 42:10

Thank you. And yeah, thanks for being here.

Neil Metzler: 42:13

So the last thing I want you to share is maybe where people can discover your art. So where can people follow you? Where can they get a glimpse of the art that you're making? How can they learn more?

Franziska Raffael: 42:25

Yeah, of course, because marketing is everything. I think the best way would actually be my Instagram just because I'm like I'm updated most frequently it has most of the artwork most of like a bit of background and like silly videos and whatever. So you get to know my art and about me. So you'd find that under Francisca underscore Rafa L, but then I also have a website because I know not everyone's on the on on the gram. And that would be the WWW dot Francis garrafa L in one word.com.

Neil Metzler: 43:02

And if folks have questions, can they contact you via email on your website and also maybe reach out over Instagram if they want to learn more about your art or your journey?

Franziska Raffael: 43:11

Totally, totally, always super open for that. Super happy to connect and to maybe answer a question or two or just to have a chat.

Neil Metzler: 43:21

That's amazing. Well, we will be looking out for you know, your progress or news and everything. So looking forward to what's next for you with your art Franziska Raphael, thank you very much.

Franziska Raffael: 43:33

Thank you, Neil.

Neil Metzler: 43:35

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